Podcast
Ross Douthat's book list: the books mentioned on Interesting Times
Books from the latest episodes
Most recommended on Interesting Times
-
The Republic
On Interesting Times, Ross Douthat brought up Plato's Republic to ask Jennifer Frey whether there is inherent value in engaging with classical works even if they do not make someone a better person. Later in the podcast series, Ray Dalio brought up the book to reference Plato's analysis of cycles and democracy.
Discussed“Would you say that there is a inherent value in being able to read and engage with Plato’s Republic, or being able to listen to and experience Handel or Bach or anyone else who’s considered a great composer?”
Where to get it
-
The Hebrew Bible
On Interesting Times, Yoram Hazony brought up the Hebrew Bible while discussing traditional political orders, family structures, and ancient governance. He cited the text to illustrate how ancient empires are viewed primarily as evil in contrast to localized rule and to describe the narrative relationship between a divinely ordained nation and God.
Discussed“You see this in Hebrew Bible, but you see it in many other sources.”
Where to get it
-
The Iliad
On the October 8, 2026 episode of Interesting Times titled TikTok Is Taking Us Back to the Dark Ages, James Marriott discussed Homer's The Iliad. Marriott cited the epic poem to illustrate the characteristics of oral poetry and culture, explaining how ancient bards utilized larger-than-life heroes and monsters to make stories memorable in an ephemeral world. He also referenced a comedic impression of the beginning of the work to highlight how ancient heroic figures parallel modern personalities.
Discussed“It's not like we're going to go back to oral poems and beaywolf and the Iliad and uh you know strumming our strumming our lies and singing our our epic songs and all those things that were such important features of of oral culture.”
Where to get it
-
Bronze Age Mindset
On Interesting Times, Jonathan Keeperman recommended Bronze Age Mindset by Bronze Pervert, describing it as a major 21st-century text for understanding concepts like the longhouse. Ross Douthat also brought up the book during the conversation, noting that readers examining certain passages might identify racist elements within the right-wing counterculture text.
Recommended“O.K Bronze Age mindset, which is one of the great texts of the 21st century. And I encourage all the New York Times’ listeners to read it.”
Where to get it
-
Deep Utopia
Nick Bostrom's book Deep Utopia came up in an October 2026 episode of Interesting Times. Spencer Klavan brought up the work to steer the discussion toward optimistic scenarios for artificial intelligence. Bostrom then used the book's framework to explore philosophical questions surrounding value and optimal setups.
Discussed“A cheerier subject may be you’ve been writing since at least 2024. Your book, deep utopia, is about the scenarios we can hope for the optimal setup.”
Where to get it
-
Living in Wonder
On the July 9, 2026, episode of Interesting Times, host Ross Douthat brought up Rod Dreher's book Living in Wonder. Douthat referenced the text to discuss Dreher's writings on the return of the supernatural, spiritual experiences, dark re-enchantment, and anxieties surrounding an artificial intelligence future.
Discussed“And then your latest book, “Living in Wonder,” was about the return of the supernatural, and also about anxieties about an A.I. future.”
Where to get it
-
Middlemarch
On Interesting Times, James Marriott mentioned Middlemarch by George Eliot during the episode TikTok Is Taking Us Back to the Dark Ages. Marriott recalled having to speed-read the novel during his first week of university to write an essay. He later referenced the book again while discussing how modern academics are finding that students struggle to finish long-form, classic literature because they can no longer get through them.
Discussed“I had to speedread Blee House and Middle March in a week um to write an essay in my first week of of the first year.”
Where to get it
-
Superintelligence
On the Interesting Times episode "Silicon Valley’s Favorite Prophet Has a New Warning" (2026-10-01), Nick Bostrom discussed his earlier book "Superintelligence." Bostrom talked about the origins of his work and writing process which began in 2008, and he referenced a specific chapter from the book while explaining the different possible paths that might result in superintelligence.
Discussed“And so back when I started working on the first book, “Superintelligence,” I began writing on that in 2008.”
Where to get it
-
The Benedict Option
Ross Douthat mentioned Rod Dreher's book The Benedict Option on Interesting Times to discuss Christian disillusionment and political disengagement. He also brought up the book to compare it with Dreher's experiences and subsequent writing in Hungary.
Discussed“You wrote a book called “The Benedict Option” in the mid-2010s that crystallized a sense of Christian disillusionment with politics and disengagement with politics.”
Where to get it
-
The Firm
The Firm by John Grisham was brought up on Interesting Times as Ross Douthat and Jennifer Frey discussed the hierarchy of literature. Douthat compared Shakespeare to Grisham to challenge literary standards, and Frey mentioned reading the book to illustrate the difference between being merely entertained and experiencing high art.
Discussed“The Philistine skeptic that Shakespeare is better than John Grisham. Is Shakespeare better than John grisham? Yes why I haven’t read John Grisham since high school, though I have. I haven’t read John Grisham in a while. I’m just. I’m dating myself as I’m a mid-forties person that it’s better that Shakespeare is better. Give me a difference. 1111 qualifying”
Where to get it
-
The Lord of the Rings
On Interesting Times, Ross Douthat referenced J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings to explain the literary origins behind the defense company name Anduril, which refers to Aragorn's sword. Douthat mentioned the book while comparing the Tolkien-inspired naming conventions of defense technology firms like Anduril and Palantir.
Discussed“So Anduril, it’s a Tolkien reference to what I know the answer, but some people might not. So the name is a conscious nerd detector. So we have identified you as such. The reference Anduril is aragorn’s sword in the Lord of the Rings. It is the flame of the West is, I think, the elven translation. There are narsil”
Where to get it
-
After
On an August 21, 2025 episode of Interesting Times featuring a discussion between Ross Douthat and Ezra Klein, guest Ross Douthat recommended the book After by Bruce Greyson. Douthat brought up the work during the final segment of the show when asked for three book recommendations, describing the author as a psychiatrist or neuroscientist from the University of Virginia.
Recommended“I think people who are interested in this subject, interested in the conversation, one recommendation would be a book called After by Bruce Grayson, who's a I think psychiatrist or neuroscientist from the University of Virginia”
Where to get it
-
Dominion
On the July 9, 2026, episode of Interesting Times titled Rod Dreher on Preparing for 'Weimar America' | Interesting Times with Ross Douth, Rod Dreher recommended Tom Holland's book Dominion. Dreher directed listeners to the work to explain how Christianity shaped Western secular values.
Recommended“Well, I would direct them to Tom Holland’s great book from a few years ago, “Dominion.””
Where to get it
-
Mind and Cosmos
On an episode of Interesting Times broadcast on August 21, 2025, Ross Douthat discussed Thomas Nagel's book Mind and Cosmos. Douthat recommended the short book as his third suggestion for listeners who are interested in consciousness and materialism, noting that the author is a famous philosopher who is not religious but nevertheless argues against the fundamental limits and problems of a materialist framework on the world.
Recommended“um but a book called Mind and Cosmos by Thomas Nagel was a famous philosopher not religious but arguing for the fundamental limits and problems with a materialist framework on the world and it is a very short book”
Where to get it
-
MOBY-DICK; or, THE WHALE
On the May 1, 2025 episode of Interesting Times titled The New Culture of the Right: Vital, Masculine and Offensive, Jonathan Keeperman recommended Moby-Dick by Herman Melville. Keeperman stated that it is a clichéd choice but maintained that every American of any age should know the book, arguing that Moby-Dick is essentially American and serves as a vital text for high school seniors.
Recommended“So the book I would choose for this is Moby Dick, and it’s a very obvious cliché choice, but it’s a thing that kind of everybody from all ages if you’re an American, this is a book you just should know. I think Moby Dick is essentially American”
Where to get it
-
Modern Physics and Ancient Faith
During the August 21, 2025 episode of Interesting Times titled "Ross and Ezra Klein Discuss Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics | Interesting Time," Ross Douthat recommended Modern Physics and Ancient Faith by Stephen M. Barr. Responding to a prompt for reading suggestions on religion and physics, Douthat called it the best overall survey despite being somewhat dated.
Recommended“The first one is a book called from about 20 years ago by a physicist named Steven Bar called ancient physics and modern faith. That is I think despite being a little bit dated is still really the best overall survey”
Where to get it
-
Unruly Americans and the Origins of the Constitution
On Interesting Times, Osita Nwanevu recommended Woody Holton's Unruly Americans and the Origins of the Constitution, suggesting it to listeners looking for colorful rhetoric and historical context on the American founding and economic unrest.
Recommended“There’s a lot of colorful rhetoric that Woody Holton goes through in unruly Americans. If people want another read on this.”
Where to get it
-
A Pattern Language
On the Interesting Times podcast episode "Rod Dreher on Preparing for 'Weimar America'" published on July 9, 2026, guest Rod Dreher discussed the book "A Pattern Language" by Christopher Alexander, Sara Ishikawa, and Murray Silverstein. Dreher referenced the work to explore architectural principles that thrive and make people feel good and connected to the whole.
Discussed“He wrote a book called A pattern language, talking about how his study of what architecture thrives, what aspects of it make people feel good and feel connected to the whole.”
Where to get it
-
A Place of Greater Safety
On Interesting Times in the episode What Makes Andor Left-Wing? with Ross Douthat on June 5, 2025, Tony Gilroy discussed Hilary Mantel's novel A Place of Greater Safety. Gilroy mentioned the book while recounting his repeated deep dives into the history of the French Revolution, describing it as a terrific and amazing novel.
Discussed“I probably revisited the French Revolution half a dozen times in my life, and probably the last thing I read was oh, there’s a great novel. Hilary Mantel’s a place of greater safety. Oh Yeah. No, it’s a terrific book, amazing book.”
Where to get it
-
A Time to Kill
On the May 21, 2026, episode of Interesting Times, Ross Douthat discussed John Grisham's A Time to Kill. Douthat brought up the novel while comparing Grisham's work to Shakespeare's Hamlet.
Discussed“That lets us tell that we should be reading Hamlet before or distinct from reading the firm or a time to kill because Hamlet.”
Where to get it
-
Against Empathy
On Interesting Times, Allie Beth Stuckey mentioned that Paul Bloom wrote a book critiquing empathy titled Against Empathy.
Discussed“I heard Abigail Shrier first say this, and I think she might have even gotten this from Paul Bloom, which is a Yale psychologist who wrote a book called against empathy.”
Where to get it
-
All watched over by machines of loving grace
On the Interesting Times episode titled Anthropic's CEO: ‘We Don’t Know if the Models Are Conscious’, released on February 12, 2026, Ross Douthat brought up Richard Brautigan's collection of poetry titled All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace. Douthat referenced the work to explore the philosophical stances and implications behind the title of Dario Amodei's essay on technology.
Discussed“and you supplied the poem 'Machines of Loving Grace' the name of a poem by Richard Brautigan. Yes here’s how the poem ends. I like to think it has to be of a cybernetic ecology where we are free of our labors and joined back to nature, returned to our mammal brothers and sisters, and all watched over by machines”
Where to get it
-
Amoris Laetitia
Father James Martin discussed Amoris Laetitia by Pope Francis on the podcast Interesting Times in the April 26, 2025 episode titled Can the Catholic Church Quit the Culture Wars?. He brought up the apostolic exhortation on the family to defend Pope Francis and his approach to listening to individual consciences against critics who argued that it promoted moral ambiguity.
Discussed“and even in the synod and LGBTQ issues and in amoris laetitia, in his apostolic exhortation on the family, a lot of his critics said Oh, well, anything goes it’s just we’re just going to listen to people.”
Where to get it
-
Amusing Ourselves to Death
On Interesting Times in October 2026, James Marriott brought up Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman. Marriott stated that the book had made an enormous impact on him when he first read it, citing it to illustrate long-term historical trajectories and the cultural shift in America from a textual print culture to a television-dominated society.
Discussed“The famous one book that made an enormous impact on me when I first read it was Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to death about the move of America from a textual print culture to a TV culture.”
Where to get it
-
Battle for the American Mind
On the October 9, 2025 episode of Interesting Times titled 'Christian Nationalism vs Clown World | Interesting Times with Ross Douthat', Ross Douthat discussed 'Battle for the American Mind' by Pete Hegseth and David Goodwin. Douthat talked about the collaboration between the authors and how Hegseth was familiar with his work on education.
Discussed“They wound up writing the battle for the American mind together. And so Hegseth knew about me from all the stuff I’d done on education.”
Where to get it
-
Believe
Ross Douthat's book Believe was mentioned on Interesting Times during the episode Ross and Ezra Klein Discuss Trump, Mysticism and Psychedelics. Ezra Klein introduced his guest by referencing the book, noting that he enjoyed it very much despite having questions about quite a bit of its content.
Discussed“He's the author of Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious, a book I enjoyed very much, even though quite a bit of it I had some questions about.”
Where to get it
-
Beowulf
On the October 8, 2026, episode of Interesting Times titled TikTok Is Taking Us Back to the Dark Ages | Interesting Times, James Marriott referenced Seamus Heaney's translation of Beowulf while discussing the attributes of ancient oral poetry and pre-literate culture.
Discussed“It's not like we're going to go back to oral poems and beaywolf and the Iliad and uh you know strumming our strumming our lies and singing our our epic songs and all those things that were such important features of of oral culture.”
Where to get it
-
Bleak House
On Interesting Times, James Marriott mentioned reading Bleak House by Charles Dickens during his university days to illustrate the demanding reading lists at Oxford.
Discussed“I had to speedread Blee House and Middle March in a week um to write an essay in my first week of of the first year.”
Where to get it
-
Bowling Alone
James Marriott cited Robert D. Putnam's book Bowling Alone on the TikTok Is Taking Us Back to the Dark Ages episode of Interesting Times. Marriott referenced a statistic from the book regarding how the average American gained hours of free time between the 1960s and 1990s and spent virtually all of it watching television.
Discussed“there's a remarkable statistic quoted by uh Robert Putnham in his book Bowling Alone about how I think it's between the 60s and the '90s the average American gained hours of free time and they spent virtually all of it watching television.”
Where to get it
-
Brave New World
Rod Dreher cited Aldous Huxley's novel Brave New World during an appearance on Interesting Times with Ross Douthat. Specifically referencing Chapter 17 of the work, Dreher brought up the book to illustrate the concept of therapeutic totalitarianism.
Discussed“Chapter 17 of Huxley’s Brave New World.”
Where to get it
-
Can We Trust the Gospels?
On the April 2, 2026 episode of Interesting Times titled Did Jesus Rise From the Dead? A Debate with Bart Ehrman, Ross Douthat brought up Peter J. Williams's book Can We Trust the Gospels? while discussing scholarly debates surrounding the reliability of the gospels.
Discussed“One of the people you’ve debated in your many debates is a scholar and writer named Peter Williams, who wrote a book called, "Can We Trust the Gospels?"”
Where to get it
-
Communion
On Interesting Times, Ross Douthat brought up JD Vance's newly published book Communion. He spoke with the author about the work to discuss its themes centered around a religious memoir and personal faith.
Discussed“You’re talking about your New book, which is called communion, Yes, Finding my way back to faith.”
Where to get it
-
Crunchy Cons
In the July 9, 2026 episode of Interesting Times titled Rod Dreher on Preparing for Weimar America, Ross Douthat discussed Rod Dreher's past book Crunchy Cons. Douthat brought up the publication to highlight how its themes and cultural observations anticipated the emergence of subsequent political developments such as the MAHA movement.
Discussed“Your book, “Crunchy Cons” anticipated the MAHA movement.”
Where to get it
-
Democracy in America
On the March 19, 2026 episode of Interesting Times, Jeremy Carl discussed Alexis de Tocqueville's Democracy in America. He cited the book to argue that the United States did not historically experience continuous mass immigration, noting that Tocqueville did not mention the word immigrant in the work when the foreign-born population was two percent.
Discussed“So there were huge periods of time that we had very low immigration in this country, and if you actually read democracy in America by Tocqueville, he doesn’t mention the word immigrant or immigration even once in that book, the US is 2 percent foreign born at that time.”
Where to get it
-
En El Congo/ in the Jungle (Tintin Facsimil)
On Interesting Times, Ross Douthat discussed Hergé's book En El Congo/ in the Jungle (Tintin Facsimil). Douthat brought up the early Tintin volume as an example of historical art containing super racist caricatures of Africans.
Discussed“One of the early Tintin books is called Tintin in the Congo. And it’s super racist. Like it is a set of super racist caricatures of Africans”
Where to get it
-
Fahrenheit 451
On the September 8, 2025, episode of Interesting Times, Ross Douthat referenced Ray Bradbury's classic novel Fahrenheit 451, momentarily misstating the title as Fahrenheit 415. Douthat brought up the book while discussing the concept of people living out in the woods who memorize great humanist texts to preserve them.
Discussed“Or like the people in the Fahrenheit 415 or whatever the book or out in the woods that have memorized their memorizing. Memorizing the great books, the humanist.”
Where to get it
-
Fire and Fury
On Interesting Times, host Ross Douthat mentioned Michael Wolff's Fire and Fury during an episode on January 31, 2025, featuring guest Steve Bannon. Douthat brought up the book while discussing Steve Bannon's exit and exile from Trump World following its publication.
Discussed“exiled from Trump World after Michael Wolf's book fire and fury came out”
Where to get it
-
God and Man at Yale
On the September 25, 2025 episode of Interesting Times, host Ross Douthat discussed William F. Buckley's book God and Man at Yale. He used the book to point out that conservative arguments regarding ideological conformity and liberal bias on college campuses have persisted for decades.
Discussed“one that’s been going on since William F Buckley first emerged on the political scene and wrote God and man at Yale.”
Where to get it
-
God Owes Us Nothing
On an episode of Interesting Times titled Christian Nationalism vs Clown World, Ross Douthat brought up Leszek Kolakowski's book God Owes Us Nothing. Douthat mentioned the work to explore topics surrounding the Calvinist form of Catholicism and the zeal of Jansenism.
Discussed“Have you ever read God owes us nothing by Leszek kolakowski? No it’s a book. He’s a Polish philosopher, but it’s a book about essentially the Calvinist form of Catholicism.”
Where to get it
-
Hamlet
On an episode of Interesting Times from May 2026, Ross Douthat brought up William Shakespeare's play Hamlet. Douthat referenced the work during a conversation with Jennifer Frey to challenge her views on what makes Shakespeare superior to popular fiction like legal thrillers.
Discussed“That lets us tell that we should be reading Hamlet before or distinct from reading the firm or a time to kill because Hamlet.”
Where to get it
-
Hardy Boys Mystery Stories 1-2
On the Interesting Times podcast, Ross Douthat brought up Franklin W. Dixon's Hardy Boys Mystery Stories 1-2 while discussing Passage Press. Douthat noted that the press publishes the original Hardy Boys series before some multicultural PC cleanups.
Discussed“You publish the Hardy Boys, the original Hardy Boys before some multicultural PC cleanups, correct.”
Where to get it
-
Inventing the Renaissance
On the August 21, 2025, episode of Interesting Times, Ezra Klein brought up Ada Palmer's book Inventing the Renaissance. Klein mentioned reading the work recently while having a broader discussion with Ross about how organized religions intertwine with historical regimes and cultural shifts.
Discussed“I've been reading about the Renaissance recently. Um, Ada Palmer's great book on inventing the Renaissance.”
Where to get it
-
Listening to the Law
On the October 16, 2025, episode of Interesting Times titled Amy Coney Barrett Is Looking Beyond the Trump Era | Interesting Times with Ross, host Ross Douthat discussed Listening to the Law by Amy Coney Barrett. Ross Douthat introduced Justice Amy Coney Barrett's new book at the beginning of the episode to highlight her judicial philosophy and approach to the Constitution.
Discussed“Her new book, "Listening to the Law," offers insights into her approach to the Constitution: from the Dobbs decision on abortion to her view of the Supreme Court’s role in the age of Donald Trump.”
Where to get it
-
Living with a Wild God
On the August 21, 2025 episode of Interesting Times, Ross Douthat discussed Barbara Ehrenreich's book Living with a Wild God. Douthat referenced the work by a famously secular writer to illustrate how individuals outside of traditional religion can still experience profound mystical and religious events.
Discussed“Famous left liberal writer wrote a whole book called and a famous atheist. yes. famous atheist called Living with a Wild God, right? And it was just a book about a very secular person who had a lot of religious experiences”
Where to get it
-
Marie Antoinette
Tony Gilroy brought up Stefan Zweig's biography of Marie Antoinette on Interesting Times during the June 5, 2025 episode titled "What Makes 'Andor' Left-Wing? | Interesting Times with Ross Douthat." Gilroy mentioned reading the book when he was fifteen or sixteen years old, noting how it sparked his lifelong autodidactic reading habits and interest in the French Revolution.
Discussed“I mean, I probably read Stefan zweig’s Marie Antoinette when I was 15 or 16 years old and started a French Revolution Jag.”
Where to get it
-
No Country for Old Men
During an episode of Interesting Times titled The New Culture of the Right: Vital, Masculine and Offensive in May 2025, guest Jonathan Keeperman brought up Cormac McCarthy's novel No Country for Old Men. Keeperman cited the book as an example of successful right-wing art, though he noted that neither the Coen brothers nor McCarthy would likely self-identify as right-wing.
Discussed“Sure no country for Old Men as an example, but it’s not self-consciously right wing, right. I doubt, the Coen brothers would call themselves on the right. And I don’t even know if Cormac McCarthy, who wrote the book. It’s based on.”
Where to get it
-
Notes on Being a Man
On an episode of Interesting Times, host Ross Douthat brought up Scott Galloway's book Notes on Being a Man to prompt the author about his personal background and upbringing. Douthat noted that while the book functions partly as analysis and prescription, a significant portion of it consists of personal story and memoir.
Discussed“So take us back in time in your own life, because your book about this subject is partially analysis and prescription, but a lot of it is personal story and memoir.”
Where to get it
-
Paradise Lost
On the Interesting Times podcast, James Marriott discussed John Milton's Paradise Lost. Marriott recalled his attempt to speed-read the epic poem during his time at university, describing the endeavor as one of his great hubistic moments.
Discussed“One of my great my great hubistic moment at university was trying to speed read Paradise Lost, which is even even even more mad.”
Where to get it
-
Passport to Magonia
On an episode of Interesting Times with Ross Douthat, Diana Walsh Pasulka discussed Jacques Vallee's book Passport to Magonia. She mentioned that it was one of the first books she read when she transitioned to studying UFO beliefs and practices. Pasulka praised the work as great, highlighting it as one of the many notable titles within the wider literature surrounding UFOs.
Discussed“So one of the first books I read when I made the turn to study U.F.O. beliefs and practices was Jack’s "Passport to Magonia," which is a great book, one of the many great titles of books in the U.F.O. literature.”
Where to get it
-
Profiles in courage
During the January 31, 2025 episode of Interesting Times titled Steve Bannon on Elon Musk and the Battle for Trump's Ear, Steve Bannon referenced John F. Kennedy's book Profiles in Courage. Bannon brought up the title to emphasize the unprecedented nature of Donald Trump's struggles, arguing that the entire book could not compare to what Trump faced.
Discussed“go read Jack Kennedy's profiles and courage you can add up the whole book and it doesn't come close”
Where to get it
-
Romans
On Interesting Times, Ben Sasse appeared as a guest on the episode How Ben Sasse is Living Now That He Is Dying. Sasse brought up the biblical book of Romans to respond to a hypothetical skeptic, explaining how Paul laid out the catechetical argument for the structure of Christianity against a Jewish messianic backdrop.
Discussed“Let’s read the book of Romans together. In Romans 1, where Paul’s essentially laying out the catechetical argument for the structure of Christianity against a Jewish messianic, hopeful backdrop.”
Where to get it
-
Submission
On the July 9, 2026 episode of Interesting Times titled "Rod Dreher on Preparing for 'Weimar America' | Interesting Times with Ross Douth", Rod Dreher discussed Submission by Michel Houellebecq. Dreher brought up the novel to illustrate the themes of European secularism and immigration.
Discussed“Now, this is the message that Michel houellebecq famously articulated in his book submission.”
Where to get it
-
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
During an episode of Interesting Times titled "Is Living to 150 Worth It? | Interesting Times with Ross Douthat" on August 13, 2026, Ross Douthat brought up "The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" by Perry Moore and C. S. Lewis. He used C. S. Lewis's Narnia series to raise the question of whether pursuing physical immortality ultimately leads to despair.
Discussed“And I there's a line in um CS Lewis's Narnia books to the effect that this is, you know, in the same zone as Dracula and Dorian Gray and and all the others that um you're trying to either offer an alternative to or not, right?”
Where to get it
-
The Confessions
On the May 21, 2026 episode of Interesting Times titled The Best Defense Against A.I. is Reading Plato, Jennifer Frey discussed Saint Augustine's The Confessions as a foundational text in the core curriculum she established for the Honors College at the University of Tulsa, tracing a historical line from Augustine to the Reformation.
Discussed“And then, of course, you read some of the Bible, and then you go into long Middle Ages. And that’s basically Augustine to the Reformation. So we start with the confessions, and we go all the way into Luther and Calvin.”
Where to get it
-
The Forest Passage
On Interesting Times in the episode The New Culture of the Right: Vital, Masculine and Offensive | Interesting Times, released on May 1, 2025, Jonathan Keeperman mentioned Ernst Jünger's book The Forest Passage. Keeperman brought up the work while discussing the origins of Passage Press and the relationship between vitalism and religion.
Discussed“and actually a passage press comes from the book forest passage by Ernst jünger.”
Where to get it
-
The Handmaid's Tale
Doug Wilson mentioned Margaret Atwood's novel on Interesting Times to argue that historical sodomy laws did not transform society into a totalitarian hellhole akin to the fictional regime depicted in the book.
Discussed“That was not a totalitarian hellhole. That was not the Handmaid's Tale. It was a free and prosperous country that I was grateful to God to be growing up in.”
Where to get it
-
The House of Government
On the June 5, 2025 episode of Interesting Times, Tony Gilroy discussed The House of Government by Yuri Slezkine. Gilroy brought up the work while talking about his deep fascination with the Russian Revolution and his extensive historical research into the era's show trials and evolving literature.
Discussed“And I was obsessed with the Russian Revolution. And then the literature on that has expanded over time and the show trials and how have you ever seen house of government. It’s just an incredible book.”
Where to get it
-
The New Dark Ages
Mary Harrington mentioned The New Dark Ages by James Marriott on Interesting Times in October 2026. Speaking on the episode TikTok Is Taking Us Back to the Dark Ages, the guest host introduced Marriott and his core thesis that society is in danger of sacrificing the foundations of democracy as it slips from long-form literacy into short-form internet culture.
Discussed“James Marriott calls this the new dark ages and he thinks that as we slip away from mass long- form literacy into a world of Tik Tok and slop that we're in danger of sacrificing the foundations of democracy itself.”
Where to get it
-
The Odyssey
On Interesting Times in May 2026, Ross Douthat brought up Homer's The Odyssey. He referenced the book to question whether it is inherently superior to other forms of media and fiction in modern American culture.
Discussed“Such as about the idea that, just for instance, that an encounter with Shakespeare is better than an encounter with fiction, or that an encounter with the Odyssey is better.”
Where to get it
-
The Origins of Totalitarianism
On Interesting Times, Rod Dreher referenced Hannah Arendt's book The Origins of Totalitarianism to discuss the factors leading to totalitarian regimes.
Discussed“Well, what I mean by that, and this also goes back to Hannah Arendt in her famous 1951 book, the origins of totalitarianism.”
Where to get it
-
The Screwtape Letters
On an episode of Interesting Times with Ross Douthat from November 2025, Paul Kingsnorth brought up C. S. Lewis's classic work The Screwtape Letters. During their conversation about the war against human nature, Kingsnorth speculated that if Lewis were writing the book today, he would include letters addressing how demons use modern technology, smartphones, and the internet to distract and delude people from their true purpose.
Discussed“I think if C.S. Lewis was writing The Screwtape Letters today, there would be a good few letters about how the demons can use the internet, how they can use the phones, um how they can use this to completely delude us and distract us and take us away from from our true purpose.”
Where to get it
-
The Sirens' Call
Ross Douthat brought up Chris Hayes's book The Sirens' Call on Interesting Times to discuss attention and political culture.
Discussed“And you, Chris Hayes, wrote a book recently called "The Sirens’ Call" It’s a very interesting book.”
Where to get it
-
The Strategy of Denial
On the July 23, 2026 episode of Interesting Times, host Ross Douthat brought up The Strategy of Denial by Elbridge A. Colby. Douthat referenced the book to provide background for his strategic views on China, noting that it argues specifically that United States foreign policy should be oriented around deterrence against potential Chinese aggression in the Pacific.
Discussed“Just for backdrop wrote a book called strategy of denial, which was a book arguing specifically that US foreign policy should be oriented around deterrence against potential Chinese aggression in the Pacific.”
Where to get it
-
The Symposium
During an episode of Interesting Times titled "The Best Defense Against A.I. is Reading Plato | Interesting Times with Ross Dou" released on May 21, 2026, Jennifer Frey discussed Plato's The Symposium. Frey mentioned the ancient text to describe how university students engaged passionately with it outside of class, wondering what was happening in the strange work.
Discussed“And so you have this shared basis of learning, but it’s amazing to see the fruits that arise from that, because they just go back to the dorm and they’re all kind of wondering what was going on in Plato’s Symposium, because it’s a really strange text in so many ways.”
Where to get it
-
The Unprotected Class
On Interesting Times, Ross Douthat brought up Jeremy Carl's book The Unprotected Class in a March 2026 episode to introduce the main discussion topic regarding discrimination against white Americans.
Discussed“In 2024, you wrote a book called "The Unprotected Class," which is about discrimination against white Americans.”
Where to get it
-
The Witch of Blackbird Pond
On the May 8, 2025 episode of Interesting Times, Ross Douthat brought up Elizabeth George Speare's children's novel The Witch of Blackbird Pond. Douthat referenced the book to mention Wethersfield, Connecticut, where Senator Chris Murphy grew up.
Discussed“If you’ve read the children’s novel the witch of Blackbird pond, right. Isn’t that that’s set in Wethersfield.”
Where to get it
-
They Flew
During an episode of Interesting Times with Ross Douthat on April 2, 2026, titled Did Jesus Rise From the Dead? A Debate with Bart Ehrman, the host brought up Carlos M. N. Eire's recent book They Flew. The book was discussed in the context of historical skepticism, secondary miracles, healings, and historical accounts of levitating saints in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries.
Discussed“Also plenty of secondary miracles, healings and so on. Where does that fit into the reasons for historical skepticism? ... to take a different example, the Yale historian Carlos Eire wrote a book recently called "They Flew" It’s a book about accounts of levitating Saints in the 16th and 17th century.”
Where to get it
-
Ulysses
On Interesting Times, James Marriott mentioned James Joyce's Ulysses to highlight the difficulty contemporary students face with classic novels. Marriott noted that academics are increasingly finding that students can no longer get through demanding texts like Ulysses and Middlemarch.
Discussed“Uh yes, I think academics are finding that for instance, they've spent their whole career assigning books like Middle March and Ulyses and they're having to stop because the the kids just can't get through them anymore.”
Where to get it
-
Warriors and Worriers
On the Interesting Times podcast episode titled Did Liberal Feminism Ruin the Workplace?, Helen Andrews brought up Warriors and Worriers by Joyce F. Benenson. She mentioned the psychologist and her book to explain the evolutionary origins of group dynamics between men and women.
Discussed“Sure, that phrase comes from a psychologist called Joyce Benenson, who did a book called "Warriors and Worriers"”
Where to get it
-
What's the Matter with Kansas?
During the March 19, 2026 episode of Interesting Times titled White Identity Is Galvanizing the Right, guest Jeremy Carl mentioned Thomas Frank's book What's the Matter with Kansas? He noted that the title served as an intentional allusion for the working title of a book he was currently writing called What's the Matter with Minnesota.
Discussed“I mean, again, the book I’m working on right now has got the working title, what’s the matter with Minnesota. And I chose that a year ago. By the way, listeners, just like you will recognize that as an allusion to Thomas Frank’s book. What’s the matter with Kansas.”
Where to get it
-
Where Is My Flying Car?
On Interesting Times, Ezra Klein brought up Where Is My Flying Car? by J. Storrs Hall during a conversation about technological innovation. Klein mentioned that he had previously written a piece for the Times centered around the book.
Discussed“I wrote this piece, actually for the Times, about this book by J. Storrs Hall called, "Where Is My Flying Car?"”
Where to get it
-
Why the Allies Won
On Interesting Times, Bret Stephens mentioned Richard Overy's book Why the Allies Won. He noted that he was very persuaded by the text, which he used to illustrate the historical debate surrounding the merits and demerits of the strategic bombing of Germany.
Discussed“I was very persuaded by a book that appeared close to 30 years ago, Richard Overy, "Why the Allies Won" about the merits and demerits of what’s called the strategic bombing of Germany.”
Where to get it
-
Zero
On Interesting Times, Bryan Johnson discussed Charles Seife's book Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea during an episode released on August 13, 2026. Johnson noted that reading about the history of zero and its disruptive impact across math, physics, art, religion, and philosophy prompted him to consider modern disruptive ideas.
Discussed“And then I read this book uh called zero, a dangerous idea. And I learned about the history of zero, how it's disrupted everything in history, physics and math and art and religion and philosophy.”
Where to get it
Guests who recommended books
- James Marriott (11)
- Rod Dreher (5)
- Jonathan Keeperman (4)
- Nick Bostrom (3)
- Jennifer Frey (3)
- Yoram Hazony (3)
- Tony Gilroy (3)
- Jeremy Carl (2)
- Bryan Johnson (1)
- Ray Dalio (1)
- Ben Sasse (1)
- Paul Kingsnorth (1)
- Helen Andrews (1)
- Doug Wilson (1)
- Osita Nwanevu (1)
- Diana Walsh Pasulka (1)
- Allie Beth Stuckey (1)
- Father James Martin (1)
- Steve Bannon (1)
Latest mentions
“James Marriott calls this the new dark ages and he thinks that as we slip away from mass long- form literacy into a world of Tik Tok and slop that we're in danger of sacrificing the foundations of democracy itself.”
“The famous one book that made an enormous impact on me when I first read it was Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to death about the move of America from a textual print culture to a TV culture.”
“I had to speedread Blee House and Middle March in a week um to write an essay in my first week of of the first year.”
“I had to speedread Blee House and Middle March in a week um to write an essay in my first week of of the first year.”
“One of my great my great hubistic moment at university was trying to speed read Paradise Lost, which is even even even more mad.”
“Uh yes, I think academics are finding that for instance, they've spent their whole career assigning books like Middle March and Ulyses and they're having to stop because the the kids just can't get through them anymore.”
“there's a remarkable statistic quoted by uh Robert Putnham in his book Bowling Alone about how I think it's between the 60s and the '90s the average American gained hours of free time and they spent virtually all of it watching television.”
“It's not like we're going to go back to oral poems and beaywolf and the Iliad and uh you know strumming our strumming our lies and singing our our epic songs and all those things that were such important features of of oral culture.”
“It's not like we're going to go back to oral poems and beaywolf and the Iliad and uh you know strumming our strumming our lies and singing our our epic songs and all those things that were such important features of of oral culture.”
“And so back when I started working on the first book, “Superintelligence,” I began writing on that in 2008.”
“A cheerier subject may be you’ve been writing since at least 2024. Your book, deep utopia, is about the scenarios we can hope for the optimal setup.”
“And then I read this book uh called zero, a dangerous idea. And I learned about the history of zero, how it's disrupted everything in history, physics and math and art and religion and philosophy.”
“And I there's a line in um CS Lewis's Narnia books to the effect that this is, you know, in the same zone as Dracula and Dorian Gray and and all the others that um you're trying to either offer an alternative to or not, right?”
“So take us back in time in your own life, because your book about this subject is partially analysis and prescription, but a lot of it is personal story and memoir.”
“Just for backdrop wrote a book called strategy of denial, which was a book arguing specifically that US foreign policy should be oriented around deterrence against potential Chinese aggression in the Pacific.”
“Your book, “Crunchy Cons” anticipated the MAHA movement.”
“You wrote a book called “The Benedict Option” in the mid-2010s that crystallized a sense of Christian disillusionment with politics and disengagement with politics.”
“And then your latest book, “Living in Wonder,” was about the return of the supernatural, and also about anxieties about an A.I. future.”
“Well, I would direct them to Tom Holland’s great book from a few years ago, “Dominion.””
“He wrote a book called A pattern language, talking about how his study of what architecture thrives, what aspects of it make people feel good and feel connected to the whole.”
Episodes
Link to this list from your show notes
Host or produce Interesting Times? Give your listeners every book mentioned on the show, with the episode and the minute it came up. New episodes are added as they come out.
