The Sirens' Call

“Beware the sirens on the rocks. The Sirens Call. Chris Hayes just wrote a book with that exact title, The Sirens Call.”

“And his new book is called The Siren's Call, How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource.”

“but it is interesting and you even talk about in your book just the way and we're going to get into Big Tech, but the way that you hold people's attention through the hour or through a couple hours on TV.”

“Like you mentioned in your book every couple seconds it's a cut from a tight shot to a wide shot to a tight shot to a graphic.”

“But I do want to hear your experience with fame because you speak about it pretty candidly in the book about what it was like to go from someone who saw people looking at you and you're like, "No, they they must not know me."”

“It's really crazy cuz you again we're talking about this attention world and I agree with you that we're like our attention is fractured and it's being split into these little things. But I think just like you wrote a book, number one best-seller about this stuff, um people have the attention span to sit and watch long podcasts.”

“What makes life worth living is to be seen, but we are given a facsimile of that that we're chasing.”

“Like your book was not a social dilemma type of book, like they're so powerful that they're holding our attention and we have nothing to do but be sucked in and they psychologically manipulate us, although there was some of that.”

“You had a great anecdote in the book where they asked people if they wanted to just sit in a room alone or if they wanted a shock. They could shock themselves, yeah.”

“So, speaking of pornography, um while I was reading your book, I like wrote down this kind of um snarky thought, uh but I'll just share it, yeah, um which is is it good that we're moving from like a manufacturing economy?”

“So that was but they figured that out although they're less they're they're performing well but they're less specific than they used to be but it's interesting cuz in your book you also wrote there's a duopoly Facebook and Google and that also seems to be a term that's changing particularly for the reason that you”

“You wrote uh in the book about Musk's purchase of Twitter that Musk wanted the recognition of others, but all he got was uh their attention in purchasing Twitter.”

“Um all right, so I don't want to get out of here without talking about uh the solutions. Yeah. And I've been listening to your um your tour and reading I got of course reading the book.”

“Well, Chris, I'm so glad that you came here to discuss the book. Um I enjoyed reading it. Go great. And we talked about one solution, but there are some others that I think people should pick up the book and and check out.”

“which by the way I I think I think it's time we just plug Chris's book I think you wrote a phenomenal book actually thanks and I would recommend it to most of my ads”

“I know you gota run. So, thank you so much for coming on on on the podcast. The book is The Sirens Call: How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource. Thanks so much for coming on the show.”

“but he just wrote a great book called the sirens call how attention became the world's most endangered resource”

“but he just wrote a great book called the sirens call how attention became the world's most endangered resource I've read most of the books on attention out there this one is I think the best one at understanding the value of attention today”

“Yeah, although I think it actually is kind of different. Like, one of the things I would say, two things. One is that I think it's possible to do do good work in any medium.”

“Someone like yourself, someone like myself, all these different people who are who are doing this kind of work, right? You're not doing it just for attention in and of itself.”

“And I think that like there is I feel like we're at a terminal point of all the things I'm talking about in the book. Like this this engineered attentional capitalism for the same reason that like people started to turn off from posting, I think our going to people are going to start to turn off from the algorithms”

“Yeah, I mean, to my the the the the title of the book which is drawn from the Odyssey is and it starts with Odysseus is on the mast and the whole point of that is that the sirens that lure the man to his death by warbling him in his ears and then Odysseus using his agency and will”

“There's actually some pretty good evidence that like hunter-gatherer societies don't really experience boredom. Um but They don't have a word for it. They don't have a word for it. Aboriginal hang. Aboriginal people do not have a word for it.”

“Um you know, in terms of like I don't think the argument I I wrote the the book before The book closed before the 2024 election. So the book's not saying like Donald Trump won the 2024 election specifically and only for this reason.”

“And you, Chris Hayes, wrote a book recently called "The Sirens’ Call" It’s a very interesting book.”