Episode · EconTalk · 2026-09-07
Books mentioned on Meritocracy, Exams, and the Knowledge That Matters (with Daisy Christodoulou)
What does a failed 19th-century Chinese civil exam and one of the deadliest wars in history have to do with how we hire, educate, and test people today?
Daisy Christodoulou discussed No Tradesmen and No Women by Michael Coolican and The Diary of Samuel Pepys, Vol. 1 by Samuel Pepys and others. Russ Roberts discussed The Talmud by Jacob Neusner, The Iliad, and The Odyssey.
Books mentioned, in the order they came up
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No Tradesmen and No Women
Discussed“And the book that I draw on to make the, I think, makes the revisionist argument really well is a book by a guy called Michael Coulican called No Trades Men and No Women. And it's a history of the British Civil Service.”
Where to get it
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The Diary of Samuel Pepys, Vol. 1
Discussed“So Samuel Pepys, very famous now, not just for slightly, slightly naughty diaries, but also diaries that he wrote at the time of some great upheaval in London. So he gives us, gives us these really vivid firsthand accounts of the great fire of London.”
Where to get it
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The Talmud
The Talmud by Jacob Neusner is a monumental record of rabbinic debate and Jewish law exploring ethics, philosophy, and daily life.
Discussed“And it doesn't matter whether you study, I'll take a famous example in Jewish life, the Talmud, which is notoriously difficult. So you study the Talmud, and your brain gets more skilled.”
Where to get it
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The Iliad
Homer's ancient epic poem The Iliad chronicles the final weeks of the Trojan War and the devastating wrath of the Greek warrior Achilles.
Discussed“And yet I think when our students deal with, say, the Iliad or the Odyssey or Plato or Aristotle, they don't read them in the original languages. They usually read them in translation, but they learn some, actually, some of the Greek.”
Where to get it
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The Odyssey
The Odyssey by Homer is an epic ancient Greek poem that follows Odysseus on his long, perilous journey home after the Trojan War, remaining one of history's most influential foundational narratives.
Discussed“And yet I think when our students deal with, say, the Iliad or the Odyssey or Plato or Aristotle, they don't read them in the original languages. They usually read them in translation, but they learn some, actually, some of the Greek.”
Where to get it
Other mentions in this episode (1) — ad reads, self-promotion and passing references, never counted
“But those who are interested can pick it up on their Kindle.”